October 21, 2005

"Joyce and Nelson Johnson, Beloved Community Center"

Welcome to Leadership Talks with Joyce and Rev. Nelson Johnson, of the Beloved Community Center. Questions and answers will appear below starting at 1 pm EST on Friday, October 21.

Leadership for a Changing World
Thank you for joining us for today's Leadership Talks with Joyce and Rev. Nelson Johnson of the Beloved Community Center in Greensboro, NC.

What motivated each of you to get involved in social justice work?

Joyce Johnson
Joyce: We have been mutually engaged in this work for about 35 years. We are motivated by a deep compassion for people, especially the poor, and a strong desire for racial and socioeconomic justice. While we have overarching unity on the underlying motives for our work, we each have traveled separate paths toward our life’s vocation of community building and social transformation.

I am motivated by love, a sense of debt, a sense of possibility, a sense of what my grandmother called, “making a way out of no way.” I am motivated by a strong sense of family and community. I long for all people to exist in circumstances that allow and encourage them to offer their best to their families, communities and themselves. I am saddened that our society is riddled by inequities and injustice. Yet, I am energized and encouraged by my own story of “overcoming.” I was born into a very poor, uneducated, hard-working, proud, single parent black family in 1946 – an “at risk” baby boomer. Though I experienced the hardships of the segregated South of that time, I grew up with a keen sense of possibilities and responsibility that I gained from my family, community and church. I was a very sickly child; my family often feared for my life. My entire community gathered to nurture me. I owe my very life to the family and community that gave me life and nurtured me. It was because of my family, teachers, neighbors and others that I moved from a family with less than five high school graduates in our immediate circle to become one of the first 10 African-American graduates from Duke University in 1968. Regardless of my personal achievements, my sense of being and purpose are motivated by an ever growing desire to build community and to find creative ways to remove those barriers we hide behind as individuals and groups that prevent each person from living a rich, affirming quality of life.

Nelson: When I was a small child in rural Halifax County, NC, my parents talked a lot about a broad range of cruel racial injustices. It was hard to get loans from the bank to put in the crops. My neighbors who sharecropped were mistreated and cheated regularly. I saw grown black men slapped open handed across the face by white policemen on the streets of our one stop light town in the ‘50's. My father, who was president of the rural chapter of the NAACP, talked a lot about black people needing to stick together to bring about change. I often wondered why black folk did not just fight these "mean" white people harder. I remember well as a small child saying to myself "when I grow up I am going to do something about this." So, the short answer is that I do what I do because it was built into my upbringing. As a small child my parents taught me not to accept the cruel injustices that I saw and felt so deeply. That I have continued to give my life to the struggle for comprehensive social justice is also connected to my growing respect for the dignity, worth and enormous potential of people in general. I came of age in the ‘60's so I was fortunate to experience the exhilaration of being in community as part of powerful transforming movements and to understand better the systemic nature and history of racism, economic exploitation and social injustice in general.

Atlanta, GA
How have you managed to navigate through such a sensitive issue and topic-especially one that happened in 30 years ago?

Joyce Johnson
Nelson: Thanks for the question. It has not been without difficulty, let me assure the asker of the question that. We have chosen to face this as humbly as we could and as honestly as we could. When there were things that we saw in our behavior and conduct some 26 years ago, we’ve tried to acknowledge that, to place it in context, but mainly, we have relied on truthfulness from our perspective and believe that the citizenry of this city have a kind of integrity that has to be invited to the surface. And with that view, we have persisted in this for the last four years, and we see positive results.
Joyce: And also, we knew at the outset that this was not something we should do alone. There was a vision and a burning desire for the truth about 1979 flowed from us and our friends, we knew that our entire city would have to be engaged. Therefore, we very meticulously thought to bring in all sectors of our city, and that included such established group such as Democratic and Republican party representatives, whose neighborhood representatives, youth and students, various religious organizations, Christians, Muslims, Jewish, black, white, Latino. So we spent – these are just examples. We’ve spent tremendous amounts of time talking in small groups and various public forums in the media, in classrooms, letters to the editor. WE produced a video, we used the theatre and plays, there’s an active blogging discussion going on. But whatever methods that we and others could think of have been employed to engage in this very broad community dialogue.
Nelson: A brief and final point on this is that it has been important for us to hold both the search for truth and the commitment to reconciliation as equal entities of a single process.

Savannah, GA
Can you explain how the Truth and Reconiliation Commission works?

Joyce Johnson
One of the worst breakdowns in human relations in the history of Greensboro, and maybe in the State of North Carolina, occurred on November 3, 1979. On that day, Klan and Nazi members interrupted preparations for a legally scheduled parade through neighborhoods in Southeast Greensboro. These gunmen killed five people and wounded ten others. The African American neighborhood in which this event occurred was terrified and our city thrown into shock. Although there have been three directly related trials, a full accounting of the relevant factors connected to this tragedy has yet to be entered into the public record and the public consciousness.

The Greensboro Truth and Community Reconciliation Process is providing opportunities for the entire city to heal and to come to a clear understanding of the events of November 3, 1979 and their aftermath. Our hope is to reach an understanding based on careful and honest reexamination of the roles of the various actors, groups, and institutions, as well as the role of the ordinary citizen. To this end, a commission composed of people with integrity and a variety of gifts, who are willing to commit themselves to seeking the truth amidst all the data and perspectives surrounding this complex situation, has been created and is actively carrying out its work.

The commission is engaging the questions of: What happened? How did it happen? Why did it happen? And, how can we learn from this episode of our history so as not only to prevent such occurrences in the future, but also to transform this tragedy into triumph for truth and good will? The findings of the commission will serve as the basis for a six to twelve month community discussion that will constructively engage the confusion, division, and bitter feelings related to that event and hopefully lead to greater reconciliation and to proposals for restorative justice.
The overall truth and community reconciliation process can be summed up as a creative people based undertaking involving grassroots democracy, restorative justice and community healing and reconciliation.

Fairbanks
How did the 60's shape you as people and activists? Do you see history repeating itself in the anti-war and economic justice movements today?

Joyce Johnson
Well, we definitely are products of the 1960s, as well as the rich heritage of the struggle of African-American people in this country. I would say that the thing, that being a participant in the struggles of the 1960s did for me was to strengthen a sense in me that creative engagement can result in progress for the vast majority of people. And a slogan that I live by is “making a way out of no way.” And I think that those of us who were privileged to be active in the 1960s felt that very strongly. In addition, the 1960s gave us a sense that despite what we might see of what looks like inactivism, that as particular times, the hearts and minds of our fellow American citizens can be touched, and they can be brought into action. I think that some of that is stirring now in the question mentioned the anti-war movement, but I’d also like to mention the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

Nelson: There is a sense in which I believe we all live out of and carry within us our history. In the 60s there was a massive response to massive injustice. Similarly, I think that in the first decade of the 21st century, there is also a massive response or developing massive response to massive injustice. And in that sense I think there is a repeating, but I think we are challenged not merely to repeat, but to go beyond what we did in the 60s by engaging on a deeper level some of the assumptions, values, and systemic flaws that were not addressed in the 60s. And I think we are, as children of the 60s, have an offering to make in that process that we are very clear that he current generation must discern its role and go way beyond where we were.

Albuquerque, NM
How is the Truth and Reconciliation committee funded? Foundations? Government? Private?

Joyce Johnson
The Truth and Community reconciliation process is funded primarily by foundations and donations from private individuals who are supportive of this process. There are currently no governmental funds for the process. There are a lot of in-kind donations that are coming from local and national universities, institutions that have similar interests, like International Center for Transitional Justice. The initial planning grant that ht e Beloved Community Center received in 2001 came from the Andres family fund, which is an affiliate of the Surdna Foundation, and they have really supported and championed this process in many forms since that time. The Beloved Community subsequently received a three-year grant form them to carry out this overall process. I mentioned 2001, and you will realize it is 2005, so you will realize we are still at it because the involvement, the engagement of the various parties takes a lot of time, and we are committed to taking the time that it requires. We had thought at the outset of this process that we would receive financial support from our local government. We have not. But the good part of that is that this is truly a process that is democratically run by the people of Greensboro. And our friends from the South African truth process and Peruvian truth process, both of whom has visited us and counseled with us at different points, have told us that the fact that this flows primarily form the people of Greensboro probably situates our process into an even higher democratic forum than theirs and would ultimately lead to even deeper engagement of some serious questions by our citizens.

Part of this process calls for a democratically appointed and independent truth commission, a seven-member commission. That commission is currently at work and it has also received funding from the Andres Family Fund, from the Jehtt Foundation, from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation, and several others. As I said, there are many volunteers, filmmakers, videographers, sound experts, recordists like yourself who’ve provided live and verbal copies of the testimonies at public hearings. All of these people have come forth from our community and from universities and organizations around the country who are supportive of this creative process.

Richmond, VA
What do you ultimately hope to achieve through the Truth Commission?

Nelson Johnson
We believe that by helping to clear up lingering confusion, division and ill feelings and by promoting reconciliation among individuals, sectors and institutions within our community, the project will transcend the hurtful legacy of events of November 3, 1979. It is our dream that the process will open doors to more democratic participation in all aspects of life in our city by all residents, especially those traditionally excluded because of race or economic position. It is our conviction that this undertaking will go a long way in both healing long-standing wounds and opening new possibilities for Greensboro to become a better, more just and compassionate city.

Washington, DC
How has the media covered the commission? Has it been positive? What do the critics say?

Joyce Johnson
Nelson: The media coverage, for the most part, ahs not been positive, especially the mainstream newspapers question the value of this process from the very beginning. It has consistently raised what we know to be flawed and false information about the history, which is part of the reason for the project itself, but we are grateful that alternative media and non-mainstream media have done a better job of covering this unfolding story. And in recent months, even the mainstream media has tended to adjust the way it is covering this, and I can say it’s doing a little better now than it was three years ago. We think this is primarily the result of the democratic way that the project has been carried out, and it has demonstrated its own integrity in our city, and we believe increasingly in other places where people are knowledgeable of it.
Joyce: And that media we’re talking about that has been basically more negative at the outset is mainly media that is local. Media that is outside of Greensboro has been more open to the possibilities that this process offers for Greensboro and beyond. But as Nelson said, even our local media has begun to evolve, as the process has persisted and gained more and more credibility.

Chicago, IL
What are the benefits and challenges to working together as a married couple?

Joyce Johnson
A common base of integrity has been the main thing that has held our group together. It also allows for different leadership roles to be carried out without the individuals clashing with each other. That has been true within our family unit as well as with others with whom we share leadership. We share a vision for a beloved community and spend countless hours discussing, debating and planning to make that vision come alive for our community. Nelson is the main articulator of the vision. I am the primary manager; together we are an effective, committed team. As a married couple, we have often been models for others seeking to combine a personal life with a larger social cause. A key to our leadership has been honoring all the different perspectives and voices in the leadership process. In a sense, honoring all the voices is also one of the greatest challenges as it requires ferreting out and synthesizing the substance and the wisdom brought by the various perspectives, while affirming each individual, if not all of his or her views.
Nelson: As a couple, we fight to have some personal time together to do things that we both enjoy. This has taken a variety of forms. We’ll share a few examples; they vary depending on our individual and collective needs and the demands we might be facing at a particular time. We sometimes consciously plan Friday night “dates” where we have a meal and go to a movie or a concert or something else of mutual interest. Each week we have Sunday dinner with our extended family (now four generations) after church where we and our extended family eat together at a local restaurant so that we can truly relax. We set aside mornings and/or evenings to just talk, to encourage each other, to hear personal concerns, to do strategic planning, etc. We also love to travel together to get away from our day-to-day demands. Whether these trips are a short drive to a nearby town or more lengthy stays, we find that they are always renewing. Invariably they strengthen our appreciation of each other and free our individual and collective minds to better prepare for our work back home.

NY
Is there something that has suprised you through out this process-ie. something that was more challenging than you thought or maybe something was easier than you anticipated?

Joyce Johnson
The first thing that comes to my mind is that I have been taught and I believe that the truth sets us free. Through this process, I’ve also learned that many people don’t want to face the truth, and that was somewhat surprising to me. However, I am firmer in my belief that the truth does set us free because there were vested interest in not grappling with the truth because it would expose some of the flaws of individuals and institutions that many of us revere or some people might even fear, there’s been more reluctance, at least initially, to engage in the truth than I personally thought there would be. But about five years down the road in this process, I am very glad that we initiated it, and we are beginning to see fruit from it. Difficulties for me – and I think for us – have been because there has been so much personal and collective pain associated with this. We’re talking about the murders of five people who were very dedicated community and labor organizers. They were anti-racist organizers. Revisiting these events in the public eye – because we’ve had public hearings similar to those in South Africa – bring back, for some of us, a lot of pain and tears, for us, for our families, for those close to us. However, we have all felt that though it was difficult, it was freeing and provided some sense of relief to finally tell our stories in our own voice and to have our fellow citizens listen to those stories and embrace us and appreciate the truth of what was going on in 1979. And I guess most significantly, to be able to link those historical events to things we are facing even today.
Nelson: There are a couple of things that have proven to be very challenging. The first is the depth of cultural confusion attached to the history of this project. I am amazed at how totally false and invented perspectives get recycled and recirculated such that they gain the state of cultural truth. And the difficulty of helping people see beyond that has indeed been a challenge. Related to that is the depth of hatred that is routinely expressed in letters to the editor and in various forms, including the radio and television media, here. It is, in one sense, good because it invites this part of our collective life in this community to come to the surface so that it can be engaged and healed. In this regard, we believe that this is inherent in most cities, but it’s often covered and denied, and there’s no mechanism for it to be engaged; therefore, the challenge itself is a tremendous gift.

Joyce: And already some of our fellow citizens are saying that they are grateful for this process and think that we in Greensboro, like we did in 1960 with the A&T sit-in , may be offering a way for our country to engage truth and to reconcile among ourselves. And the examples they have pointed to are the events that we are seeing unfold around Hurricane Katrina. In fact, we shaped our most recent public hearings and spiritual preparations for those hearings by linking Hurricane Katrina events to what we are facing. Other citizens have linked the truth that we seeing revealed rlated to the war in Iraq to the kind of things American citizens will ultimately have to insist on so that we can be the democratic society that we all yearn for. And we feel that an truthfully informed citizenry is essential for that. So we feel that despite the difficulties, we are pace-setting here, we hope that places like Mississippi, Alabama, New Orleans will take the lessons from what we are doing here will take them even further and continue bringing all the voices of their citizens and residents of this country to the table to make our society better and better.

Boston, MA
What are you doing specifically to help grow the next generation of leaders, as your LCW article states?

Joyce Johnson
At the Beloved Community Center, we have an active internship and service learning program that we carry out in partnership with local and national universities. This effort allows young people who are in the – we’ve got six colleges here in Greensboro – to spend a minimum of ten hours per week with us in an internship, and they are able to interact with the veterans, organizers, and community leaders that revolve around the Beloved Community Center. They also assist with some of the grassroots history research that we actively conduct here at the Beloved Center, they assist with the various on-the-ground programs, such as the Worker Justice Center, the Homeless Hospitality program, our education program that emphasizes the involvement of parents in the larger community in shaping the policies of public education for our young people in this county. And some of them gain skills and assist us at the Jubilee Institute in the management aspect of running nonprofits and being involved in community activities. So basically, we have an opportunity to provide on-the-job training for carrying out community organizing and engaging economic and racial social justice questions. This summer, we had an eight-week-long program called Freedom Summer, somewhat modeled after the freedom schools of the 1960s, and these young people worked closely with us for that entire period in some aspects of or work and also engaged in ongoing seminars and dialogue reflection with the Beloved staff and our expanded circle. So it was a tremendous learning experience for them, but also for us to better understand how to convey lessons from our experiences to them. We actually had someone here who’s a part of the hip-hop generation to talk with us and them to talk about both the problems that young people are facing and the way they view issues that they are grappling with. So we felt it really was an intergenerational experience for them and for us.

Leadership for a Changing World
Thanks again for a great discussion. We have time for one more question that we like to ask all of our guests.

How do you sustain yourself and your staff to prevent burnout?

Nelson Johnson
At the Beloved Community Center, we value all aspects of our relationships – not just our working relationships – as a part of building authentic community. Therefore, every Monday we gather at the office for at least two hour “Good and Welfare” or “Community building” sessions. During these brown-bag lunch sessions we share experiences of the previous week, plans and hopes for the coming period, joys and concerns from our personal lives, good and bad jokes, family stories and pictures, the latest developments in sports and entertainment, spiritual strivings, etc. All staff and volunteers are invited. It is an open space where we get to know each other better in our various dimensions. We also consciously plan “outings” such as a nature walk, trip to the mountains or lake, etc. Families and significant others are always welcome at these events. Staff members are also encouraged to take breaks to visit family and friends, to do fun things, to engage in retreats and other forms of spiritual renewal. At Beloved Community Center, we do a lot of personal checking in with each other, as well as community gatherings and celebrations. When one person required physical rehabilitation at the local Y, several others joined her during lunch three times a week to encourage that person and to develop more physical and spiritual wellness among the staff.

Joyce: I enjoy spending time with my family – especially my grandchildren and my elderly and disabled mother. Interacting with them provides salve for my soul. It also strengthens my sense of purpose because I want the economic and social climate in which they must exist to be more egalitarian and wholesome. I enjoy escaping into a good novel. My favorite stories are those of ordinary people, especially women and those of color, overcoming difficult situations and still maintaining their sense of humanity. I gain spiritual strength through reading the Bible, listening to a good sermon (Nelson’s a great preacher, by the way), or listening to gospel music or singing to myself. My morning ritual includes praying and singing and listening to the Holy Spirit as I take long showers. I receive great inspiration and a sense of peace during those times – at least until the phone begins to ring. At other times, I like to create through cooking, sewing, cleaning up my cluttered house or office – mindless work I call it. Some of my most peaceful moments flow from simply sitting and getting in touch with my inner self. I do this while looking out into my huge backyard at the sky, the trees and the birds, squirrels, rabbits, neighborhood dogs scampering about in a mystical pattern of harmony that honors their separateness and their connectedness at the same time. Lastly, I keep prayer journals or write personal notes. It is helpful for me to express my deepest thoughts, dreams, fears, needs, plans, etc. I re-read some of them at later periods to reflect on their meaning, to understand where I have been and where I need to go. This practice helps to center me spiritually and practically.

Nelson: I gain a great deal of strength and satisfaction from reading. Reading is not only a source of information and stimulus for imagination but often a form of prayer for me. I especially like reading history and theology. One of the little books I carry on trips and keep handy around home and office is “Raising Able” by James Reston. I have read it about twenty times but it is always a new treasure for me. Relaxing with my wife and family, is very refreshing. I have always enjoyed children. When I can I volunteer in day care centers. My three granddaughters are such a source of joy for me. My church family, especially our Wednesday night bible study is energizing and inspiring in the middle of the week. Although it is challenging, I truly enjoy the work I do and all the people of the Beloved Community Center with whom I work.

Leadership for a Changing World
Thank you for joining us for today's Leadership Talks with Joyce and Rev. Nelson Johnson. For more information on the Beloved Community Center:

Beloved Community Center of Greensboro, Inc.
P.O. Box 875
Greensboro, NC 27402
Phone: 336-230-0001
Fax: 336-230-2428
Email: joycej@belovedcommunitycenter.org
Email: nelsonj@belovedcommunitycenter.org
Web: www.belovedcommunitycenter.org

Joyce Johnson

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